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The Citizens Petition: Special Prosecutor for Bush War Crimes

by: buhdydharma

Sat Dec 20, 2008 at 15:46:33 PM EST


Please go to Democrats.com and sign the petition!

With the recent admissions by Vice President Cheney and the release of the Senate Armed Services Committee Report on detainee treatment, what we have known in the blogosphere for years has now....finally....made it into the mainstream. The Bush Administration planned, developed and carried out an organized torture program stretching from Gitmo to Iraq, Afghanistan and secret prisons around the world.

Despite their protestations and attempts to cover themselves with highly questionable legal opinions, this was and is a War Crime. Their politicization and corruption of the Department of Justice has stymied any investigation and left all efforts at accountability and justice to the new Obama Administrations DOJ, and specifically to AG Designate Holder.

Now, even the New York Times is....again, finally...calling for a Special Prosecutor to investigate these crimes.  

buhdydharma :: The Citizens Petition: Special Prosecutor for Bush War Crimes
However, as we also know well in the Blogosphere, this is far more than an issue of crime, punishment and justice as it should be. It is a political issue. A 'hot potato' political issue considering that any and all attempts at investigation and prosecution will undoubtedly (and erroneously) be described by the Republicans, the Right Wing press and pundits, and even some (complicit?) Democrats as a 'partisan witch hunt' and as 'criminalizing politics.' in other words, there are huge political costs at stake here. It would be much, much easier to 'move on' or 'not play the blame game' or point fingers to the past.'

The Obama Administration will face incredible pressure to sweep these War Crimes under the rug of history. We in the Blogosphere need to provide the counter-pressure. We do that by making our voices heard, and one way to do that is by each and everyone of us, the thousands if not millions of blog readers, adding our names to a petition. The petition will ultimately be submitted to AG Holder, as well as to Change.gov. However it can make a great impact on the 'public conversation' just by being everywhere in the Blogosphere as well.

.

Petition Badge
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To that end, Docudharma and Democrats.com have teamed up to create, host, and distribute the following petition. The petition calls for Attorney General Designate Holder to, immediately upon being confirmed, appoint a Special Prosecutor to investigate and prosecute any and all officials of the Bush Administration for Torture and War Crimes.

The petition:

Dear Attorney General Designate Holder,

We the undersigned citizens of the United States hereby formally petition you to appoint a Special Prosecutor to investigate and prosecute any and all government officials who have participated in War Crimes.

These crimes  are being euphemistically referred to as "abusive interrogation techniques" by such respected figures as Senator John McCain. These are euphemisms for torture. Torture is a War Crime. Waterboarding is a War Crime. The CIA has admitted waterboarding detainees. Recently, Vice President Cheney has brazenly admitted authorizing the program that lead to waterboarding, other forms of torture too numerous to list, and ultimately, the deaths by homicide of detainees.

As Major General Antonio Taguba, the Army general who led the investigation into prisoner abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison has stated:

"After years of disclosures by government investigations, media accounts and reports from human rights organizations, there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account."

The Washington Post recently summarized the Senate Armed Services Committee Report on detainee treatment thusly:

A bipartisan panel of senators has concluded that former defense secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and other top Bush administration officials bear direct responsibility for the harsh treatment of detainees at Guantanamo Bay, and that their decisions led to more serious abuses in Iraq and elsewhere.

We the undersigned citizens demand a full and thorough investigation immediately upon your taking office. This investigation should be pursued no matter where it may lead and no matter what the political implications may be. To this end, we remind you that you work not on behalf of or for the President or the Congress, but for the People of the United States of America and for Justice itself.

The United States is a representative democracy. The actions of our government officials are done in the name of its citizens. War Crimes have been committed in our name. Torture has been done in our name. The only way to clear our name of War Crimes is to repudiate them through the aggressive prosecution of each and every person involved to the full extent of the law through the appointment of a Special Prosecutor.


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We are urging everyone in the Blogosphere and beyond to get involved in this project...not just to sign the petition, but also to write diaries and blog posts in support of the effort. And also to display the linked badge (created by Edger) in your posts or on your sites. The easy to embed code for posting the badge can be found here.

Please feel free to contact us at admin@docudharma.com for more information or any technical assistance you may need.

If you wish to post this essay, or just the petition, on any site or your own blog, please mail us at admin@docudharma.com and we will send you the entire essay, complete with HTML code, to post wherever you wish. Please feel free to edit, within the parameters of keeping the original spirit and intent. We enthusiastically give full permission for such use!

And of course......Please go to Democrats.com and sign the petition!

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Howdy Zoners! (5.00 / 8)
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Make some noize!


You need a new plastic surgeon! (5.25 / 4)


pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will

[ Parent ]
Hi buhdy (5.33 / 3)
The forthcoming blanket pardons will be interesting.  How do you expect they will effect the pursuit of prosecution and indictments related to war crimes?

Petition: signed. Excellent work.

"I see Daily Kos as a product, not my soapbox." -Markos Moulitsas


[ Parent ]
I have begun to think (5.00 / 3)
In light of Cheney's confession, that they are going to try to bluff their way through it on the Yoo et al memos. If they accept pardons.....they accept guilt. That opens them up to civil suits, international trials (by Iraqis especially) etc.

Remember how arrogant these pricks are. Accepting a pardon means you did something wrong, and they NEVER do anything wrong! Plus.....who IS going to do anything about it? I'm sure they think Obama is a wimp...and they KNOW Congress is!

After years of frustration for all of us, the end game is getting interesting!


[ Parent ]
It is hard to believe how much time has passed (6.00 / 3)
and still...nothing.  

I dunno "If they accept pardons.....they accept guilt".  That might be pre-911 thinking you know. We'll see.  After all, we're talking about a level of arrogance that accompanies pathologies and criminality beyond our willingness to see them apparently.  So the arrogance seems to override all conventional expectations.    

There's also the statute of limitations that runs out in 8 years (from what point exactly I don't know), which John Dean has said would happen on these crimes in particular before a special commission could get to it.  His caution over the last few years has not served people like you or me too well though, has it buhdy? :\

These 2 videos are posted on afterdowningstreet.org, worth watching for anyone who hasn't seen them. Exactly on topic.



"I see Daily Kos as a product, not my soapbox." -Markos Moulitsas


[ Parent ]
Hello to you! (6.00 / 1)
Welcome!

This is a great petition. Will it be delivered online or will it be printed out?


[ Parent ]
Hopefully both! (5.00 / 1)
We would love to be able to hand it to him!

[ Parent ]
Won't wash off! (5.00 / 2)
No matter what i do!

How ya doin, Miss Dee?


[ Parent ]
I believe the term is (5.20 / 5)
fileee

[ Parent ]
Done. (5.33 / 3)
Good work buhd-man.

pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will

The petition asked for further comment. (0.00 / 0)


Whoops! So I added something: (6.00 / 1)
There is no need for Mssrs. Bush and Cheney to fear a fair investigation or even trial in a democracy. If the United States is unthinkable for political reasons, perhaps the governments of Iraq or Afghanistan would be suitable substitutes for them, as they have worked so hard to make those countries what they are today.


[ Parent ]
eh... fuck this petition (2.00 / 3)
and it will go nowhere.

My new blog - Atheist Right

I assume you'll be okay if Obama does all that Bush has done then? (5.00 / 2)
You okay with Obama picking a nation of his choice to invade for no reason, torturing their citizens, killing hundreds of thousands of their previously peaceful citizenry?   You'll be okay with Obama's people listening in all of your phone calls too, right?  You'll also be okay with any nation that has a problem with us deciding that the Geneva Conventions don't apply to U.S. citizens too, thus torturing and killing of U.S. civilians will be just fine, right?

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
I am ok with the tactics but not necessarily the big (0.00 / 0)
decisions. Of course I don't want anyone invading for "no reason". But I approve of invading for a good reason.

Torture is not an issue for me. Sorry, I am not one of the shrill lefties. Different issues and different interests. Also other nations who we fought against have already been torturing and killing Americans. So I don't need to be ok with them doing it in the future. I know they've done it. It's just a tool.

I hope Obama is aggressive in defending our country. Let our military and the intel agencies do their job.

My new blog - Atheist Right


[ Parent ]
Wow (5.20 / 5)
Torture is not an issue for me. Sorry, I am not one of the shrill lefties.

You mean shrill lefties like these?


Retired Generals against torture

Brigadier General David M. Brahms (Ret. USMC)
Brigadier General James Cullen (Ret. USA)
Brigadier General Evelyn P. Foote (Ret. USA)
Lieutenant General Robert Gard (Ret. USA)
Vice Admiral Lee F. Gunn (Ret. USN)
Rear Admiral Don Guter (Ret. USN)
General Joseph Hoar (Ret. USMC)
Rear Admiral John D. Hutson (Ret. USN)
Lieutenant General Claudia Kennedy (Ret. USA)
General Merrill McPeak (Ret. USAF)
Major General Melvyn Montano (Ret. USAF Nat. Guard)
General John Shalikashvili (Ret. USA)

or shrill lefties like these?


Military Leaders Speak Out Against Torture


or shrill lefties like this?

What Torture Could Cost Us


As the investigator of the atrocities at Abu Ghraib prison, I confronted the outcome of current interrogation policies. We undermine the values that built this country and the credibility of our armed forces when we stoop to the level of some of our enemies. The awful events at Abu Ghraib and their far-reaching consequences could have been prevented if we had adhered to the Geneva Conventions.

Captured U.S. service members will face increased risk if torture becomes a tool of our interrogators. Our research showed that torture may produce an answer but that the credibility of the answer will always be in doubt. When our service members become captives, we could pay a high price for questionable intelligence that we extracted through torture.

PAUL J. KERN

Arlington

The writer, a retired U.S. Army general, is a senior counselor with the Cohen Group.

or shrill lefties like these?


Retired Military Generals Urge President-Elect to Take Action on Torture Issue

WASHINGTON, Dec. 3 - Barack Obama should act from the moment of his inauguration to restore a U.S. image battered by allegations of torturing terrorism suspects, said a group of retired military leaders planning to press their case with the president-elect's transition team on Wednesday.

"We need to remove the stain, and the stain is on us, as well as on our reputation overseas," said retired Vice Adm. Lee Gunn, former Navy inspector general.

Gunn and about a dozen other retired generals and admirals, who are scheduled to meet Obama's team in Washington, said they plan to offer a list of anti-torture principles, including some that could be implemented immediately.

If torture isn't an issue to you then you should feel perfectly comfortable with the thought of our troops being tortured en masse.  Military generals vehemently disagree with you and in large part for that very reason.  Torture is not a non-issue to them and it shouldn't be to anybody.

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
yup, not an issue to me (0.00 / 1)
couldn't care less actually. I wish I could personally torture the fuck out of Osama Bin Laden.

Let the CIA do their job. I know Dems are not actually stupid enough to obstruct CIA no matter what they tell you guys, their dumbass base.

My new blog - Atheist Right


[ Parent ]
Just so we're straight (5.00 / 3)
You fully support government employees breaking both U.S. and international law and violating sworn oaths of office for elected representatives who support this, all while being paid employees of the citizenry of this nation.

Thanks for making it clear.

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
I don't believe in the "International Law" (1.00 / 1)
Most countries couldn't care less about something that was never agreed upon by everybody and is routinely flouted by everyone. So I am not going to pretend to care about something with no enforcement behind it and no set of ideals guiding it.

Geneva Conventions are valid in my mind as a decent agreement but they only apply to regular Prisoners of War of regular militaries, not a bunch of terrorist animals.

As for US Law - it's quite fluid in that area as everyone is aware. As many of our laws are, especially when pertaining to non-Americans.

My new blog - Atheist Right


[ Parent ]
The Supreme Court of the United States says you are wrong (5.00 / 2)
In fact the SCOTUS decided that torture of Guantanamo detainees, those who you deem not a part of "regular militaries, is a violation of Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, a violation of United States Law, and a War Crime.

That wasn't decided by an international commission, it was decided by a conservative majority United States Supreme Court, the highest interpreter of law over this entire nation.

Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld

There's nothing fluid about a Supreme Court decision, you're simply spouting off without having a clue what you're talking about.

So now we've established that you think that it is okay for those we pay the salaries of with our tax dollars, those who are bound by established law via the SCOTUS, those who swear oaths of office to uphold that law, to break the law at will with no consequences.  Apparently you think those who torture are above the supreme law of this nation.

Thanks for clarifying again.

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
the libs and Kennedy (1.00 / 1)
often act against the interests of US. They should not even had had jurisdiction in this case. And it was about military commissions, not "torture" of anyone.

Anyways, I am not the type to accept stupid Supreme Court decisions as the final verdict on my personal morality. Fuck the libs on the court.

I don't have to agree with everything those morons decide.

My new blog - Atheist Right


[ Parent ]
You don't have to agree with anything (5.00 / 1)
But what you agree or disagree with is completely irrelevant to the reality of the laws of our nation.  

The decision was not in the least bit strictly about Military Commissions.  It was about whether Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions applies to "enemy combatants" not a part of a national uniformed military, showing that your statement about "regular militaries" is in complete contradiction to established U.S. law.  Article 3 contains the torture prohibitions which the court went into in saying that Article 3 applies to those our government has deemed "enemy combatants".  

You're just so unbelievably wrong and in contradiction with the facts in every comment you've posted in this thread that it amazes me you continue.

the libs and Kennedy  (0.00 / 0)
often act against the interests of US

Using the standard for "acting against the interests of the US" that you've just established via the SCOTUS decision cited, you have also said, in effect, that all of these military generals are acting against the interests of the United States.  That is one hell of a statement to make but I guess you know interrogation techniques, their success rates, their legalities and long-reaching effects better than dozens of military generals.  That's another hell of a statement.

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
there are "dozens of military generals" (1.00 / 1)
and then there are 100s who never signed on with those "dozens". You can always find a bunch of morons among the generals who would suck up to anyone and say anything. You really did not impress me with those generals.

I don't know the interrogation techniques and their success rates, but neither do those "dozens of generals". But the CIA who actually use those techniques do know. And they are the ones who are the experts. Let the experts play. Screw the dozens of generals.

My new blog - Atheist Right


[ Parent ]
"You Don't Have To Be Pitilessly Sadistic To Work Here But It Helps!!!" (5.00 / 3)


[ Parent ]
Wow (5.00 / 1)
So any General who thinks serving by the sworn military oath is the right thing to do are "suck-ups" and "morons" even though they have nothing to gain from speaking out.  That makes complete sense.  

But the CIA who actually use those techniques do know. And they are the ones who are the experts. Let the experts play.

Okay.

CIA veterans speak out against torture

Next.

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
who cares??? (0.00 / 0)
When the CIA says that they don't need to do what they do, then we'll talk. I prefer letting them do what they need to do.

It's a tough job to keep US safe. You need to watch some Chuck.

My new blog - Atheist Right


[ Parent ]
LOL (5.00 / 2)
"Who cares???"

Good summation of your entire argument here, the facts be damned.

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
What a joke you are. (5.00 / 2)
I don't believe in the "International Law"

Most countries couldn't care less about something that was never agreed upon by everybody and is routinely flouted by everyone.

Like Israel's declaration of statehood at the expense of 700,000 arabs?


[ Parent ]
Don't expect any consistency (5.00 / 2)


"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
lol (0.00 / 0)
for fucks sake, don't you know I don't give a shit about anything you care about?

My new blog - Atheist Right

[ Parent ]
You don't give a shit about Israel? (5.00 / 1)
That's a surprising statement.  


"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
mattes cares about Israel (0.00 / 2)
like a member of KKK cares about Africa. In case you haven't figured it out yet.

My new blog - Atheist Right

[ Parent ]
As a declared supporter of War Crimes established by the Supreme Court of the United States (5.00 / 2)
I scarcely think your opinion of mattes means much.

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
I proudly support "War Crimes" (1.00 / 1)
as defined by the libs :)

My new blog - Atheist Right

[ Parent ]
The SCOTUS is not liberal by any stretch of the imagination (5.00 / 1)
If you think Scalia and Thomas have liberal counterparts on the same level of their conservatism, you simply have no grasp of the political spectrum.

You proudly support War Crimes as defined by U.S. Statute, the Constitution of the United States via the Geneva Conventions, and the Supreme Court of the United States.


"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
US Statutes are dime a dozen (0.00 / 1)
and the rest is open to interpretation. The CIA does a good job with those war crimes. Keep up the good work brothers and sisters. I am proud of you.

My new blog - Atheist Right

[ Parent ]
Wrong, try again (5.00 / 2)
The Supreme Court stating that Article 3 applies to enemy combatants is not up for interpretation, it is the supreme law of the United States once they made their determination.

You can interpret it any way you'd like but your interpretation doesn't mean shit whereas theirs means everything.

So we've established the following this evening:

1.  You do not respect the rule of law in this nation.

2.  You do not accept the decisions of the Supreme Court, the supreme law of the land as dictated by the U.S. Constitution, as law.  You therefore do not respect the Constitution of the United States.

3.  You support employees being paid by our tax dollars breaking the law in torturing, something that no experts stand behind as a useful interrogation technique

4.  Any military general who speaks out against War Crimes, violations of U.S. Law, and violations of sworn oaths is "a moron" and "a suck up".

5.  You are unable to argue your position on any of this with any basis in facts.

Been fun talking to you.  

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
I've been wondering why you've been (0.00 / 0)
going through the whole liberal shtick on this... It's not like I cared about anything you said. We do not have the same ideals. The Right and the Left do not share the same worldview.

Especially in this area. The reality is that no one in power really shares your worldview. It's useless in the real world.

My new blog - Atheist Right


[ Parent ]
You're in the fringe on this one (5.50 / 2)
It's not a matter of conservative or liberal, you're in a small minority who think we should be torturing.   You're also in a small minority who think that breaking the law is always okay as long as it's about beating the shit out of brown people.

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
nonsense (0.00 / 1)
I am not in favor of torture. I just don't have blinders on with blanket opposition. Who could've predicted that a liberal would squeeze a racism accusation!? Surprise.

Torture is such a stupid misdirection. It's ridiculous I am even discussing it. No one cares about it. The only reason the Left is screaming about it is because it was GOP in power, and they want to use anything to bring GOP down. You are a tool like most of the rest of the Leftist base, screeching about useless garbage.

My new blog - Atheist Right


[ Parent ]
I guess you didn't notice that the GOP brought itself down (5.00 / 3)
and boy did it go down in some mighty big flames.

I am not in favor of torture. I just don't have blinders on with blanket opposition.

Sorry, no dice.  Torture does not bring about good results and the backlash it has created has harmed our national security and standing in the world for a very long time to come.  Why do you not have the best interests of our nation in mind?  

Who could've predicted that a liberal would squeeze a racism accusation!? Surprise.

Who exactly do you think we're torturing?  White people?  What a stupid comment.

It's ridiculous I am even discussing it.

You probably should have avoided this discussion altogether.  All you did was show your complete ignorance to the facts, your disdain for our constitution and rule of law, and the fact that you support something that is detrimental to our own national security and standing in the world.

You are a tool like most of the rest of the Leftist base, screeching about useless garbage.

Yep, all of those military generals and former CIA interrogators are obviously part of the leftist base, screeching about useless garbage, all in a plot to bring the GOP crashing down.  Yet again, you make complete sense.

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
since you keep talking to me (1.00 / 1)
despite your insistence on the desire to stop that, I am going to conclude that you like me.

That's sweet ;)

My new blog - Atheist Right


[ Parent ]
Where did you see "an insistence on the desire to stop that"? (5.00 / 1)
You wouldn't just be pulling shit out of your ass again, would you.  

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
don't be crude (0.00 / 0)
It doesn't become you. Try a little less anger, and maybe you will accomplish a lot more - with lower blood pressure as well.

My new blog - Atheist Right

[ Parent ]
You shouldn't try to read emotions into pixels on a screen (4.50 / 2)
Is that you, Dr. Frist?

"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
I love cats (3.00 / 1)
Perhaps you are right. In any case I need to get to bed. Till next time.

My new blog - Atheist Right

[ Parent ]
Don't believe in law = anarchist. (5.00 / 2)
I always suspected it, but now I know.

The Libertarian figleaf comes off to reveal the Superman!

Able to grow crops, design and build computers, install the Internet, and impregnate numberless Amazonian Virgins!

Must be great to be you, above the law and all, especially on the freeway.

'Til some dude drills you for tailgating.

"Our purpose is aligning culture to human nature."


[ Parent ]
Apparently you are happy to disregard Article 6 (5.25 / 4)
of the Constitution as well:

all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land


pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will

[ Parent ]
Yep, that's exactly what I've been referring to (5.00 / 2)
in calling the violations of Article 3 a violation of established U.S. law.   The Supreme Court decision made it clear that Art. 3 applies to thoser deemed "enemy combatants" and the constitution makes Article 3 not merely "international law" but "the supreme law of the [United States of America].  

I think the problem here is that Ender simply doesn't believe laws matter at all when it comes to war.  I'm sure he thinks the convictions of Japanese soldiers after WWII for waterboarding were a disgrace as well, but probably not because those weren't Americans committing the crimes.


Pelley asked him about American interrogation methods today. Asked if water boarding is torture, McCain said, "Sure. Yes. Without a doubt."

"So the United States has been torturing POWs?" Pelley asked.

"Yes. Scott, we prosecuted Japanese war criminals after World War II.
And one of the charges brought against them, for which they were convicted, was that they water-boarded Americans,"
McCain said.



"Man you terrorist supporters sure do grab for anything."
- theravenseldon


[ Parent ]
don't waste your breath (4.60 / 5)
ender is 12 years old.

[ Parent ]
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